Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

For members and non-members to discuss all things in Tamriel

Moderators: Secro, WasteGate, ESO Officers

Leo Armstrong
Guild Officer
Guild Officer
Posts: 267

Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#1 » 25 Mar 2014, 12:04

I used the skill builder I linked in the other post and it will take 109 skill points to max dark magic, my heal staff, light armor, racials, clothing and woodworking.

It takes 24 just to max one crafting profession.

I'm considering whether it is possible to just ride from zone to zone (at character level zero) and collect all the skill point shards in the entire world during head start. The map in
that link I posted shows where they are and with Imperial Edition you get a horse. I could then use those points to max a crafting profession as soon as it is available.

Then repeat that on 8 toons to have one profession on each toon in as quick a time as possible. I will still have to level to some level but I would have all those shard skill points
already in the bank to throw into crafting as I level.

If I level normally I would need to place points in skills to kill mobs as I level which means it will take a lot longer to max one crafting profession let alone 8.

Any thoughts?

User avatar
Mooney
Guild Master
Guild Master
Posts: 469

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#2 » 25 Mar 2014, 14:44

have you factored in you can only do your own alliances areas, you cant play as a Daggerfall character and skip off to the ebonheart zones for example, untill level 50, there seems to be about 3 - 5 in each zone (i didnt look at the map you posted) so i imagine if your trying to gather your 20th skill shard, you in a level 30+ area potentially

i just had a quick glance at the traits as well, it seems like a majority of the time is going to be spend researching magical upgrades having a maxed out say blacksmith for example is a bit pointless, as 8 of said skill points is just the higher tiered armour, half of which nobody will be able to use for a time

i imagine just rushing up to the research speed traits will probably be the way to go and just asking if people mail you old equips instead of selling them for gold, so you can "salvage them" i wont put it past you to just swap between chars all day managing timers lol

Leo Armstrong
Guild Officer
Guild Officer
Posts: 267

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#3 » 26 Mar 2014, 03:02

You're right, I didn't consider I can only ride through zones of my own faction.

Another idea would be to level normally to say level 24 or 30 (whatever level you need to unlock hirelings and research) then respect and dump the points into crafting.

Rinse repeat for all 8 toons so I have all the crafting skills covered. I saw a stat that said you gain roughly 1 level (skill point) per hour so
it would take between a week or two to get 8 toons to level 24 - 30. If you get it done in the first month you will be way ahead of the curve.

Then I can take my time levelling my main while the hierlings bring stuff in the mail on each toon and I can mail stuff I find to break down or research as well as resources I pick up to those toons as I continue to level my main.

By the time you have maxed your main and want to switch to an alt, that alt will already have researched a tone of items in its crafting profession so you can respec it and take points out of crafting to level the toon. Meanwhile your other alts are still having resources delieverd each day by hirelings and having resources and items to break down sent to them each day by your new toon your levelling.

That would seem as efficient as you could do it.

As for the guild giving crafters stuff I don't think that would be the best way to go.

Say you do blacksmith and Wastegate did woodworking. Given I have one of every profession when you level your blacksmithing I log on my blacksmith then we make for example
10 helmets each, trade them to each other, break them down, make another 5 helmets with the resources from breaking down the ten previous, trade them to each other, break them down.

Rinse and Repeat with Wastegate with woodworking and so forth. That would level us both faster.

The only items guildies should consider giving to crafters are items they want the crafter to research. So if you find an item with a good Magika/health/stamina regen on it or bonus damage, that may be the sort of item it would be a good idea to send to guildies doing that crafting profession so they can research it then add that stat to any item you want that crafter to make for you in the future.

Thoughts?

User avatar
Mooney
Guild Master
Guild Master
Posts: 469

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#4 » 26 Mar 2014, 20:18

i still think your a madman, but that is probably the best way to handle crafting yes

i havent looked into it that much, but there doesnt seem to be anything wrong with that plan, the main "grind" with crafting is the research, so its probably best you get that all set up ASAP yes

the research is an facebook game style, this will take X real hours to complete
Last edited by Mooney on 28 Mar 2014, 04:15, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
catweazel
Guild Officer
Guild Officer
Posts: 202

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#5 » 27 Mar 2014, 19:41

researching a "damage buff" on a long sword, will only allow you to put a damage buff on a long sword, not an axe, or a 2h sword, nor a bow etc.

likewise a magica boost from a cloth hat, allows you to put it on a cloth hat only, not a leather hat, not cloth boots etc.
so yes, researching is the major time sink, and money sink to get the items to reverse engineer

do you need to max all crafting skills on your craft toon ?
wil your crafter benefit from longer visual range affects on resource nodes, or wil your levelling main be wondering around harvesting the nodes?

no you need 8 crafters?
or can 3 toons max all crafting skills, and just put enough points into your others to get the hirelings (and maybe the range harvest mod)?

my crafter (tank setup, minimal combat skills) will first specialise in wood and leather for my main, then metal for itself, and then enchanting.
if the other professions seem usefull enough, i'll make another crafter toon once the main is level caped.

when prioritising research, "set" items require 2 or more traits on the item before you can make it, so think about what to research before hand.
there was a skill that allowed multiple research jobs concurrently, from memory?

Leo Armstrong
Guild Officer
Guild Officer
Posts: 267

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#6 » 28 Mar 2014, 00:03

Hi Catweazel,

All good points and questions.

Keeping in mind I am a crafter rather than a PvPer or Dungeon/raider. I'm only interested in crafting basically.

I know my main will need to be able to view all resources at MAX range dues to the fact this isn't Guild Wars 2.

In GW2 each toon could harvest the same resource so you could log one in after the other and mine the same tree/ore/plant so you harvesting was only limited by the number of toons you had.

In ESO once anyone grabs a resource it vanishes till it respawns so you only need one toon at max level that can see everything and harvest everything then mail it to the alt crafters.

The alts won't need any points in gathering because they will never go out gathering.



Next question/answer.


Whether you need 8 crafters or only 3 will depend on wether it is quicker to level 3 toons to 50+ for the skill points needed for them to max 3 crafting professions each or if it is quicker to level 8 toons
to 30 or 40 or however far they need to go to have enough points to fill their crafting sections.

You suggest having one crafter with 4 craft professions. That's 24 x 4 = 96 skill points if you max each skill. If levelling skill points take longer as your toon goes over level 50 and into veteran ranks then getting to 96 may take over a month. But we don't know yet, obviously you are right if it is quicker then that will be the way to go but I imagine the first 40 skill points will come very fast but that next 56 may be a very slow grind compared to just levelling another toon to 40.


Next Question/Answer.

Yes I think there is a skill that allows 2 research at the same time. It is the same skill that shorten the amount of times it takes to do one research. I think 3 points in the skill opens up the double research option.

User avatar
Usambara
The Patient
The Patient
Posts: 254

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#7 » 28 Mar 2014, 09:14

I'll use blacksmithing skills as term of reference. I'd split shared crafting on each alt.

The main major hurdle is research from what i can. I'd share the load over every alt If there is 8 traits per weapon, and its a doubling per trait from 6H start, that makes it 63.75 days to research per weapon/armour last trait alone(with 0 slack time). So what that 500 odd days to do all weapons(without metallurgy benefits, armour was independent research I think). The longest would be clothing, isn't both Light and Medium in one research pool, so thats twice as long.

First char does axe,sword, next does hammer/dagger, etc etc.
The only gotcha is you will need to get extra supplies of all the racial style books.

I think to minimise research I would be spinning up all the alts at start and have them research their item as soon as you source each item with a trait. Then work to get to eaches Metallurgy quickly (skill level 8 ). (first skill points if possible, except may hirelings, metal extraction more a save money thing) I'm not aware of a skill/level restriction on research.
From what I'm seeing extracting higher level items vs skill level can reap quick rewards. (ie just a handful of level 14 items should get a level 1 skill character to level 3 from extraction alone, this will get your hirelings going. (unless they nerf power leveling crafting skills). To me best way to skill up all alts is to get a main producing the highest level (and low material count) items quickly.

So I would be running a main (or have a patron) who is working on Metalworking to ensure they can make all items types who will feed stock back down to army of researching/extracting alts, Once the main is in a position of making all items levels, then perhaps work on each alt to give sufficient skill points to improve output. But apart from Metalworking I don't see skills that actually skills improve items created.
Except for 8 skill points needed to craft all item levels, the rest I don't see as important for the item creators
Have the improvement cost reducing on one char and the extraction skill really only to ensure you get the max raw materials back.

(And yes I think there should be an achievement/title for anyone who actually does. I think it would take over 2 years of insane dedication to get all craftables onto a single char. That is something to be revered.)
Image

User avatar
Fitz
Guild Officer
Guild Officer
Posts: 2813

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#8 » 28 Mar 2014, 09:22

Usambara wrote: That is something to be revered.)



You spelled pitied wrong.

Leo Armstrong
Guild Officer
Guild Officer
Posts: 267

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#9 » 28 Mar 2014, 11:30

Hi Usambara,

Using Blacksmithing as example. From ESOhead skill builder tool tips located http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#cM ... JZug8zL7a6

9 points to Max Metal working (to craft in all metal types).
3 points to Max Keen Eye (to see resources out in the world)
3 points to Max Miner Hireling (to get more ore each day and better items from them)
3 points to Max metal extraction (to extract more stuff when you break items down)
3 points to Max Metallurgy ( to reduce research time by 20% (total I think) and research 3 items at a time)
3 points to Max Temper Expertise ( double chance to improve items with temper)

That's 24 points you have to put in the way I see it. In your MAIN toon, not so much your alts but your main will need it all I think.

I think Keen Eye is mandatory because in this game if you do not see the resource first and get to it first then the resource is gone.

At end game you will have the whole crafting population in the one end zone grabbing anything that pops. See it first. get it first or you will never be able to get it. That's how I see end game resource gathering. It will be a tone of players all running to be the first to get to a node before it is mined and vanishes. It would not surprise me if big guilds actually camp known spawn points to limit availability of resources and jack up the price to sell the items made with that resource. I could be wrong, but without Keen Eye maxed, life will be hard if your resource gatherer main toon doesn't have it.

On the ESOhead skill builder, it says the skill level for research is level 8. So that's crafting level 8 rather than toon level 8. It will take a lot of ore to craft that much stuff and break it down before getting to level 8. Keen Eye will help you there as well and after you get to rank 8 you could respect and take those points out then place it in research. Not sure what the cost in gold would be to do so.

It will obviously be hard to get high level stuff to break down so you level quicker at launch. If that's your plan you are better of waiting a month till we get up in levels before starting your crafters but at launch the quickest way is to team up with guild crafters and swap item stacks to break down. You make 10 helmets, I make ten helmets, we trade them to each other and break them down, rinse repeat.

I think you may be wrong in the idea that metal working is the only thing that helps create better items.

The way I see it hirelings with 3 points means they bring back better items, which you may be able to break down to get those resources which can change an item from white to green to blue to purple or whatever the color code is from normal to epic item colours. So that to me is creating a better item. I don't know what the loot table of them is or if it is listed anywhere but if there is even a one in a thousand chance that they turn up with an epic item with a rare stat/trait then having them on each toon improves your odds. Also after a month all those resource and items they will bring for you to break down will add up to a lot of saved time gathering ore. After a year...

Metal extraction which you mentioned is the same as I said above. The more points the more the odds of getting those rare resources that change items from white.green.blue,purple.

I think what I am saying is accurate. I only played the last beta so didn't have that much time to work it all out but that's how I saw it.

If you only plan on levelling one crafting profession then your way seems the fastest but if you are levelling all professions I think it will take to many resources. To get research only on every toon
in every crafting profession is too expensive because of how many resources you will have to break down to get each profession to level 8 on each toon before you can research that profession on that alt. If that makes sense.

I also think that at end game there will only be one stat/trait for each class that everyone will want for the build of the month, till it gets nerfed, so you won't need to research everything, just whatever the current OP weapon/stat/trait is and maybe the 2nd and third best for when they nerf the best one. So that I think you can do on one toon. Unless I don't understanding how they work either.

User avatar
Usambara
The Patient
The Patient
Posts: 254

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#10 » 28 Mar 2014, 19:39

Yes the best solution would be to identify the most useful traits and only research them first. i think the + Experience one are probably the least usefully except as leveling aids.
And does a 1H sword have any difference to a 1H mace, it not, meh research different traits first on each.

I watched one crafting video showing I level 14 item being deconstructed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMg7G2WmRuU

Bit of a flaw in his logic (the alt he gives a level 1 to is not the same crafting level).
Image

User avatar
catweazel
Guild Officer
Guild Officer
Posts: 202

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#11 » 29 Mar 2014, 12:57

back to thread title ...
I made level 17, 12,10,8 on 4 toons, 3 betas.
about L8 crafting skills on smith, wood, leather

back to topic:
I find Kean eye the least important trait.. I know what a node looks like, having flashy sparks fly out the top is not worth the points (to me).

the L50 resources are in cyrodil (pvp zone), and probably the other high end zones.
cyrodil is huge, and large guilds won't be camping nodes there. no way to get a gang of guildies to sit and do nothing while I wait for a respawn.
(my main is stealthy pvp specialist)

a day of pvp got me maybe 10 green items (after I had a full set of level appropriate blues) for research/recycle mats (including upgrade mats)

the upgrade reduction skill is very important to me, upgrade mats were the hardest to find.
I had an excessive amount of raw mats, but wasn't selling/traiding, just personal use

the most valuable craftable items I believe will be the set items, with multiple traits on them, which require multiple traits researched before you can build them.
set items require the use of a special craft station, found in the wild, not cities, one set per station.

all crafting mats can be stored in the bank, any toon can craft from the bank mats, mats do not need to be in inventory.
all toons share the one bank, bank space fills quick with mats :( only email items/mats to alts if you "need" the space
I will have 8 toons at start, but 6 will just be storage alts till I need them. (cook mat store, drink store, potion...)


a suggestion for leo:
have 1 alt specialising in recycle, 1 for upgrade, one for building..
toon A builds 10 items, B recycles 10...
they will all level craft skills, but not invest in off spec traits,
may be more cost affective (point cost) ? but more mat/time expensive.. ?
(I didn't do the math, just thinking out loud)

cat

User avatar
catweazel
Guild Officer
Guild Officer
Posts: 202

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#12 » 29 Mar 2014, 13:13

Usambara wrote:Yes the best solution would be to identify the most useful traits and only research them first. i think the + Experience one are probably the least usefully except as leveling aids.
And does a 1H sword have any difference to a 1H mace, it not, meh research different traits first on each.


different weapon types in the same class do different things, like higher crit chance, more armour penetration.. I cant remember the details :(

I will be going for +exp, +damage for weapon priority; +exp, +magica for armour, until the main hits level cap.
will research what ever I find that looks the most usefull out of the items I have at the time.
if nothing looks good, i'll buy low level "lucky dip bags" till something turns up.
low level items are very cheap to a high level toon.

not sure about the extra charges for enchantments trait, wil have to do a cost analysis on soul gems at level cap.
probably go with a straight damage bonus though, one with a snare effect...

User avatar
catweazel
Guild Officer
Guild Officer
Posts: 202

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#13 » 29 Mar 2014, 13:33

Leo Armstrong wrote:I also think that at end game there will only be one stat/trait for each class that everyone will want for the build of the month, till it gets nerfed, so you won't need to research everything, just whatever the current OP weapon/stat/trait is and maybe the 2nd and third best for when they nerf the best one. So that I think you can do on one toon. Unless I don't understanding how they work either.


set items, I have seen craft stations that give 3 stats/traits per item, in level 15ish area
(also a 2 trait station near the first city after noob area, level 6ish)
so to craft a 5 item set will need 15 traits researched on the appropriate pieces.
you don't need to make the whole set at once, just 1 at a time (if you have 3 traits unlocked for that item)
I didn't have the "trait mat" (gem etc) to actually make any :(
I didn't find any "set" bonuses I liked, but the extra traits will be great.

on style books, not required other than for visual asthetics ?
so what if my wood elf wears ork armour ?

cat

Leo Armstrong
Guild Officer
Guild Officer
Posts: 267

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#14 » 30 Mar 2014, 11:37

Hi Catweazel,

That's a lot of good info I has no idea about. Thanks for that.

If crafting mats are in PVP zone I can see stealthed guys camping nodes to gank crafters not aware they are there. How long can a toon stay stealthed? Hopefully it is a charge that runs out in 30 secs of less.

Can you harvest a resource while stealthed or do you have to leave stealth to harvest the node.

Is there a list of set item trait combos?

On Keen Eye, I am taking for granted the "sparkles" show node locations currently not drawn on your screen to see with normal sight. A bit like the compass showing quest location but limited to see the length of 2 screens distance. So if the "soarkle" is to the north you will not see the node with your eye because it is out of visual range however if you run in that direction you will get to the point where it becomes visible. If I am right I still think Keen I is mandatory but if the "sparkles" only show plants in your already viewavle distance then you're right it isn't worth it.

Your suggestion of 1 toon recycle, 1 upgrade, one build, will leave you with the same problem.

1 toon, recycles coth, 1 upgrades cloth, 1 builds cloth, so you now how 3 toons levelling cloth and sharing the exp. So no toon is getting the full exp and its costing skill points on each toon.

We need to just get together as guildies and help each other trade items to break down.

There are enough of us playing who are keen on crafting to help each other out.

You suggested you had tones of spare mats which means we all will.

So there is even an option to say, "Hey cat, if I give you 100 ore can you log on your Blacksmith and make 25 helmets for me to break down?"

Yes I will be losing the exp for making the helmets but I will be saving having to have two toons or three toons having to level blacksmithing and the skill points on those toons to go with it. I am trading that expense for ore which is abundant and only losing the small exp of making the helmets which will have their own diminishing returns if I made them and broke them down myself.

And obviously at some point you will have 100 spare ore and we can reverse the situation so in the long run neither of us miss out on any exp and we do it on just 1 toon.

I am confident I will be playing enough daily hours to help at least 2 guild crafters fully level all crafting professions.

It is just a matter of asking in guild chat if anyone is able to do some crafting breakdown trading and I am sure there will be people on how can help.

If there isn't it may even be worth it to store those items in the bank or on an alt and ask again the next day.

At last resort break them down yourself to get whatever exp it gives. Moving them to an alt to break down only means your main toon is not getting any exp for breaking them down for the mats it used. Seems like a complete waste, especially since if you wanted 3 toons doing one profession you can just get 1 toon to level 50 and then send level 50 items to your alt to break down which would level it much faster without wasting resource mats.

User avatar
catweazel
Guild Officer
Guild Officer
Posts: 202

Re: Anyone get to a high level in the beta?

Post#15 » 30 Mar 2014, 12:43

hi Leo,
wall of text coming :)

cyrodil is big, extremely big, gigantic, massive, huge. and there is a war on...
its also divided into 3 quadrants, the size of which changes as forts are taken and lost.
there are about 24 forts ? to run from one to the next closest may takes 10-15 minutes.
we can fast travel inside our territory from fort to fort, enemy can only fast travel inside their territory.
I do not see a problem with a zero combat skill crafter harvesting nodes in cyrodil.
it wil just take time. I doubt very much anyone wil stealth camp a node, the odds of a "random ambush" is soo tiny.
there are solo pve quests in cyrodil also, so harvesting between pvp/pve is my source of mats.

you unstealth when harvesting (3 seconds?)
you stay stealthed until something unstealths you by proximity, or you attack.
moving while stealthed costs stamina, regen stamina when stoped moving (and stay stealthed permanently)
(see medium armour skill line, racial trait lines and nightblade skills for more details)
my main will be harvesting whilst looking for enemy wanderers and exploring.

set items: you choose the traits to put on them. the set bonus is an additional affect dependant on number of set pieces equipped
probably a list somewhere, I don't have a link sorry.

keen eye: the nodes were in draw distance well before the particle affect at skill level 1,
I did not check level 2 or 3, gave up on it as a wasted skill investment. (increase your draw distance in graphics options if required?)
will require experimenting to confirm benefits. (I'm an explorer, resource nodes are a bonus, not the focus)

tones of spare mats: I was not grinding crafting, I was experimenting with game mechanics, and building my own gear.
if you have 8 toons, levelling, you should have ample mats to keep your craft skill level appropriate to toon level and area level.
I expect to have enough mats with 2 toons levelling, and working 3 craft skills
at level 12 ish, I started my black smith craft line, had well over 100 iron in bank. recycling items into raw to fit in bank
group sharing is the way to go with build/recycle... call me for wood and leather :)
I was continuously dumping food/drink/potion/runes/cloth to make inventory space

hirelings: I will likely level all toons in all craft skills, but not spend skill points in them, other than to get hirelings
will see how many skill points I have at the time, but by level cap there will be hirelings

remember, you don't need to put skill points in to crafting to craft, the points just make it more efficient (till crafting high level items)

style books: handy for grinding, you need the style mat + the craft mat to make stuff.
more styles is more efficient use of style mats. style mats can be bought from craft vendor near craft stations in cities.

eg: mats to build an item
1 style mat
X raw mats (iron/maple etc)
1 trait mat per trait (optional)

we need a craft thread :)
cat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

Login  •  Register