Good bye, my friends

For non-Southern Cross and Southern Cross members to talk about World of Warcraft

Moderator: WoW Officers

User avatar
Xga
Brewmaster
Brewmaster
Posts: 1345
Joined: 15 Mar 2007, 19:10
Location: Brisbane

Post by Xga » 26 Sep 2007, 00:14

MJ wrote:
xga wrote:
MJ wrote:lol your arguements are almost as bad as ret dps, almost

So i spend time typing a massive post trying to explain my thoughts only to get swept aside by 1 sentence. If you're going to oppose what I've said, you could at least have the decency to argue why instead of replying with what is essentially "lol your post sux".


i was referring to vanit

edit: also you would have spent your time better d/ling and watching "a night in paris"

edit edit: the edit was for xga

fake edit edit: i was only told what "a night in paris" was on the weekend, i lol'd... /crawls out from under a rock

my bad then, but yeah you're probably right. actually wait i've already seen that, nvm :roll:
Image

User avatar
Nutta
The Lightbringer
The Lightbringer
Posts: 3537
Joined: 05 Dec 2004, 21:47
Location: Adelaide

Post by Nutta » 26 Sep 2007, 00:16

Tyrius wrote:IF MY DPS CAME FROM MY TEARS IT WOULD BE ENDLESS.

ESPECIALLY IF CYCLONE WAS INVOLVED.

ENDLESS I TELL YOU.


lol.

I miss you tyrius.

As for this discussion. There is probably a reason theres not a guild I can name who takes ret pallies on raids. Can understand your probably bored playing holy Vanit but your going to be pushing shit up hill trying to prove that ret is viable in raids.
Nutta - lvl 70 Rogue - Goblin Engineer/Miner
Firun - lvl 68 Druid - Alchemist/Herbalist
Kelya - lvl 40 Warlock - Enchanter/Tailor

Vanit
Dreadlord
Dreadlord
Posts: 812
Joined: 13 Mar 2007, 16:28

Post by Vanit » 26 Sep 2007, 00:24

Nutta wrote:but your going to be pushing shit up hill trying to prove that ret is viable in raids.
You have no idea. :P

Thanks for the support Xga.

User avatar
honeypot
Mechagnome
Mechagnome
Posts: 503
Joined: 16 Sep 2005, 17:35

Post by honeypot » 26 Sep 2007, 00:27

isnt ret for pvp?

remember i was the queen of pvp :D
Image
Image

Vanit
Dreadlord
Dreadlord
Posts: 812
Joined: 13 Mar 2007, 16:28

Post by Vanit » 26 Sep 2007, 00:30

honeypot wrote:isnt ret for pvp?
The lack of debuffs aside from stuns make it a bit lol.

Dankyn
The Lightbringer
The Lightbringer
Posts: 3648
Joined: 09 Jan 2005, 13:39
Location: Perth

Post by Dankyn » 26 Sep 2007, 00:31

the whingy gquitr gets a raid spot

if you were a parent this is not how you treat a tantrum

User avatar
MJ
WoW Officer
WoW Officer
Posts: 7901
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:05
Location: Brisbane

Post by MJ » 26 Sep 2007, 00:41

Dankyn wrote:the whingy gquitr gets a raid spot

if you were a parent this is not how you treat a tantrum


it would seem so
ImageImage

Kalahn
Grunt
Posts: 22
Joined: 22 Apr 2007, 15:35

Post by Kalahn » 26 Sep 2007, 00:44

Vanit... grow some balls

a successfull paladin is a sexy holy one

and and btw... learn to put on devo aura

User avatar
MJ
WoW Officer
WoW Officer
Posts: 7901
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:05
Location: Brisbane

Post by MJ » 26 Sep 2007, 00:46

Kalahn wrote:Vanit... grow some balls

a successfull paladin is a sexy holy one

and and btw... learn to put on devo aura


omg quoting kal because we so rarely see him on the forums!

this thread just got a whole lot hotter
ImageImage

Kalahn
Grunt
Posts: 22
Joined: 22 Apr 2007, 15:35

Post by Kalahn » 26 Sep 2007, 00:49

Hi MJ where u been man, wow's boring without u :<

User avatar
beach
Guild Officer
Guild Officer
Posts: 1935
Joined: 30 Jun 2005, 23:57
Location: Melbourne

Post by beach » 26 Sep 2007, 02:29

xga wrote:Lets see what the ret pally brings in utility. Judging crusader gives the entire raid +3% crit chance. So generally we have 14 dps in a given raid (25 total - 4 tanks - 7 healers). Now lets take away another 4 of those dps as an example and assume they wont benefit so much as other dps classes from the crit (eg. spriests, affliction locks). We now have 10 dps receiving +3% crit - that's a whopping 30% crit rate, and theoretically a 30% dps increase over the entire raid (depending on crit damage bonuses). Not only that, but his entire group is receiving +2% damage from improved aura, meaning a flat +10% dps increase for that group.


If this was true every raid would have a ret pally in it.

Increasing everyone's crit rate by 3%, adds (roughly) only 3% the damage contribution from the dpsers (direct damage only) not 30% total increase.

The 2% damage aura also only causes a 2% damage increase for the whole group. The spot is better used by another rogue (which we have in abundance) to take advantage of Battle shout and totems.

As it's stands now, it's absolutely not viable for raiding. It needs some pretty extreme changes to bring it up to the level of actual dps and utility.
Vanit, you've been a very reliable raider and healer, but surely you can see it's really not worth pursuing this spec so avidly without even knowing when teh changes are coming (or if they'll be any good in the first place).

We need to progress, and it's gonna be a lot harder to do if we're going to be losing a great holy pally and gaining a ret pally
"Taste that. That's the taste of Beachjustice" - Bryant Gumble

There's madness to my method.
Image

User avatar
Maedhlyn
Epic!
Epic!
Posts: 1529
Joined: 26 Mar 2007, 20:29
Location: Brisbane

Post by Maedhlyn » 26 Sep 2007, 06:37

Well.. personally I couldn't care less about how good or bad ret is.. Vanit had a cry and left the guild, so GL with whatever man.
Sig.

User avatar
t3kno
Mechagnome
Mechagnome
Posts: 698
Joined: 31 Mar 2005, 19:57
Location: Sydney

Post by t3kno » 26 Sep 2007, 09:42

Maedhlyn wrote:Well.. personally I couldn't care less about how good or bad ret is.. Vanit had a cry and left the guild, so GL with whatever man.


qft... if a ret pally can't out dps a hunter then what's the point?
Mikumari - Hunter (Engineer/Miner)
Ten - Shaman (Enchanter/Jewelcrafter)

User avatar
Riedacher
Herald of the Titans
Herald of the Titans
Posts: 2619
Joined: 14 Dec 2005, 22:55
Location: Melbourne

Post by Riedacher » 26 Sep 2007, 10:49

beach wrote:
xga wrote:Lets see what the ret pally brings in utility. Judging crusader gives the entire raid +3% crit chance. So generally we have 14 dps in a given raid (25 total - 4 tanks - 7 healers). Now lets take away another 4 of those dps as an example and assume they wont benefit so much as other dps classes from the crit (eg. spriests, affliction locks). We now have 10 dps receiving +3% crit - that's a whopping 30% crit rate, and theoretically a 30% dps increase over the entire raid (depending on crit damage bonuses). Not only that, but his entire group is receiving +2% damage from improved aura, meaning a flat +10% dps increase for that group.


If this was true every raid would have a ret pally in it.

Increasing everyone's crit rate by 3%, adds (roughly) only 3% the damage contribution from the dpsers (direct damage only) not 30% total increase.

The 2% damage aura also only causes a 2% damage increase for the whole group. The spot is better used by another rogue (which we have in abundance) to take advantage of Battle shout and totems.

As it's stands now, it's absolutely not viable for raiding. It needs some pretty extreme changes to bring it up to the level of actual dps and utility.
Vanit, you've been a very reliable raider and healer, but surely you can see it's really not worth pursuing this spec so avidly without even knowing when teh changes are coming (or if they'll be any good in the first place).

We need to progress, and it's gonna be a lot harder to do if we're going to be losing a great holy pally and gaining a ret pally


i think he meant 30% total dps increase if you concentrated all the buffs from everyone on one person instead of spreading it over 10, and he already factored out some of the dot damage and stuff.

Think about it though. Put him a melee dps group. If everyone in the party normally does 100 damage in a fight, they all now do 105. 20 extra damage from just the party. And the other dps (let's say 5 more as a low estimate), do 103 instead of 100 (not including crit bonus increases, procs off crits, etc). Another 15 extra damage. So if Vanit manages to get just 65% of the average dps class's damage, he is viable. Yes, you probably wouldn't be replacing him with someone who does average dps, probably with a rogue. So imo, over many trials, if he does more than 65% of the average rogue damage, he stays.
PUNKKID IS MY MAGE

User avatar
Maedhlyn
Epic!
Epic!
Posts: 1529
Joined: 26 Mar 2007, 20:29
Location: Brisbane

Post by Maedhlyn » 26 Sep 2007, 11:21

Vanit wrote:3.5 Would you be willing to respec your character for raiding if asked to?
A: Sure. I have fun in all specs if they're put to use. But I'm full holy/kings spec so probably no need.


I think the main point is, we need a healer.
Sig.

Post Reply